Friday, 2013-08-09

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dm8tbrthe guy on the list has a point06:57
prpplaguedm8tbr: sorry i haven;t been follow the list06:57
dm8tbrmight be worth mentioning, that the supply is wide range (i hope it is?)06:57
prpplaguedm8tbr: got a url?06:57
dm8tbrprpplague: board comes always with US supply06:57
dm8tbrprpplague: he was 'surprised'06:57
dm8tbrhe has an adapter, but wanted to bring up the topic06:58
prpplaguedm8tbr: yea it is tested for the wide voltage range06:58
prpplaguedm8tbr: there are all kinds of issues with shipping the PS06:58
dm8tbryes, I know06:58
dm8tbranyway, mentioning that the supply is US plug, but wide range would be good on the description06:59
* mranostay sleeps06:59
dm8tbrwhich would mean notifying distributors too, I guess06:59
* mranostay throws zzzzzz's at prpplague 06:59
* dm8tbr covertly injects mranostay with 0.5g of caffeine07:00
mranostayisn't that over the LD50 for an IV injection?07:00
dm8tbrdunno for injection, but it's in the range of what I sometimes ingest oraly within 10min07:01
prpplaguedm8tbr: yea they were already notified07:01
mranostaydm8tbr: oral != IV07:01
dm8tbrI know, just saying07:01
mranostaya shot of alcohol would kill you if it was in a IV :P07:01
dm8tbrmranostay: also it depends on what type of injection. i.v. i.a. i.m. etc07:02
dm8tbrwonders if for caffeine i.m. wouldn't be better07:04
Vaizkioral = iv if you're a vampire07:07
dm8tbrmranostay: 265 mg/kg in case of lab-rats it seems07:13
dm8tbrmranostay: I guess one hell of a flash and some shaking, but not near the LD5007:14
ahollerwide range = 100V - 120V? ;)07:29
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prpplaguezenlinux: no we are not shipping internation power supplies16:07
prpplaguezenlinux: we are shipping power supplies with north american blades16:07
prpplaguezenlinux: but are rated for use with 110 to 240 V16:07
zenlinuxprpplague, gotcha, can we have bob contact the disti's and make sure they clearly state it has a NA style plug, though?16:08
* zenlinux heads to Tiny's cafe for a gathering of pdxtech hackers16:10
Jayneilzenlinux: Changed the google group a bit.. categorizing stuff from now will help a bit in the long run.16:10
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ahollerprpplague: people might be confused because the photo looks like the connector might be exchangeable. I have such a plug where I can exchange just the connector.16:37
prpplagueaholler: yea, there was a discussion on including an exchangable one16:38
prpplagueaholler: however due to the regulations, we can only put a NA adapter in the box16:38
ahollerI don't have to understand that if I'm not a sales man, yes? ;)16:39
ahollerwould you need CE for the board or something else if you would add an international plug?16:40
aholleranyway, I don't care ;)16:41
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ahollerjust sell it without plug.16:44
ahollerand manufacture some plug Y-cable (or even more) to attach multiple 5v devices ;)16:45
aholler+with16:45
dm8tbrJayneil: categorizing? no such thing on the mailing list interface... ;)16:51
Jayneildm8tbr: I mean when you post a question on the google group, you have to select a category for posting question and same applies when you want to browse the group for answers..16:55
* dm8tbr doesn't *have* to anything16:55
dm8tbrI just open my MUA and send a mail to minnowboard@googlegroups.com16:56
dm8tbrand no I don't browse the group for answers. I check INBOX/minnowboard through IMAP. ;)16:56
ahollerbut you wouldn't reach phorum users with such a simple interface ;)16:58
zenlinuxJayneil, thanks so much for posting the jumper info on the wiki! :)17:01
zenlinuxin other news, Mozilla recently opened an office in Portland. One of their folks contacted me saying they were trying to get a RasPi to be a build dashboard/digital sign and performance was too poor.17:02
dm8tbraholler: well the ph0rum kidz can use the google interface...17:02
zenlinuxSo I'll be dropping off a Minnow with them later today.17:02
dm8tbrhehe17:03
dm8tbrno pile of FRI2 in the corner? ;)17:03
zenlinuxI suppose an FRI2 would work, too.17:03
dm8tbrthe only thing the fri2 has over the minnow is the second HDMI output17:05
zenlinuxwell, and the wireless features17:08
prpplagueaholler: we already have FCC/CE for the board, but many countries require additional certs for the power supply17:08
zenlinuxdm8tbr, you have your minnow now, yes?17:08
dm8tbrzenlinux: as I wrote I skipped the early order option as I ran out of vacation17:09
zenlinuxah, right17:09
dm8tbrI'll order it from a european distributor once available17:09
zenlinuxhope your vacation is going well17:09
prpplagueaholler: my preference is to sell the minnow without a power supply, and have the disties have an accesory page with one17:09
* dm8tbr agrees with prpplague on that one17:10
* zenlinux agrees, too17:10
dm8tbrrids you of a whole bag of compliance crap17:10
prpplaguedm8tbr: exactly!17:11
ahollerI don't really understand why. The compliance for those plugs should be already given.17:12
dm8tbraholler: you have to certify EMC WITH the PSU plugged in. without PSU you don't have to certify EMC at all IIRC17:13
ahollerah, ok, that answers the situation17:13
dm8tbranyone know if there is a way to check from where digikey will ship an order? IIRC they had european warehouses.17:14
dm8tbrI'd like to avoid taxes and delays17:14
zenlinuxdm8tbr, I'm guessing Farnell would be the place to go, since they're based in the UK?17:15
zenlinuxbtw, I just added Arrow to our distributor list last night17:15
dm8tbryeah, checking farnell too17:15
dm8tbrinteresting, looks like digikey delivers according to incoterms DDP17:18
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panda84kdeHi guys. Quick question. Is there GMA600 OpenGL ES support for minnowboard?17:27
prpplaguepanda84kde: good question17:30
* prpplague checks17:30
prpplaguepanda84kde: panda? using a pandaboard ?17:30
panda84kdeit think it's emgd-bin here: http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit.cgi/meta-intel/tree/common/recipes-graphics/xorg-driver17:31
panda84kdeprpplague: yes. And also a BD Nitrogen6x (Freescale i.MX6), a Olimex Olinuxino A20 (Allwinner A20), and Hardkernel Odroid (Samsung Exynos 4)17:32
panda84kdeI like to collect them all!17:32
ahollerI have kde on my beaglebone ;)17:32
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dm8tbrand yes, it needs the emgd driver if you want GLES17:33
panda84kdeis the driver affordable or does it cause headaches? (I come from the ARM hell)17:34
dm8tbrunless you fancy things like llvm-pipe on the cpu17:34
dm8tbr me SGX crap I'd expect17:34
panda84kdeI meant dependable, non affordable17:34
dm8tbrit's pretty much the sa...17:34
dm8tbrgma600 == SGX / PVR17:34
panda84kdewell. The best supported ARM GPU on Linux is actually Pandaboard's ARM17:35
panda84kdethe only one I know to support xrandr17:35
panda84kdeso there's even crappier crap than PowerVR17:36
dm8tbrlot's of blood sweat and tears in that I'd expect. Probably also prpplague's.17:36
panda84kdePoulsbo might be a heaven in comparison17:36
prpplaguedm8tbr: hehe indeed17:37
prpplaguepanda84kde: it's pretty solid from what i understand, even on the panda i never really used any of the accelerated video stuff17:38
dm8tbrbtw: from what I hear there are interesting options coming up in the context of intel gpu drivers + libhybris + wayland17:39
panda84kdewhat's the size of the board?17:39
dm8tbr4.x ยท 4.x inch17:39
dm8tbrit's on the page17:40
panda84kdedm8tbr: ah, thanks. SDVO to DVI (over HDMI connector) means it has HDMI output right?17:41
dm8tbrpanda84kde: have you read the tech specs page?17:41
panda84kdehttp://www.minnowboard.org/technical-features/ this, right?17:41
dm8tbryes17:41
dm8tbrit means what it says17:42
dm8tbrit's DVI17:42
dm8tbron a HDMI connector17:42
dm8tbrso I wouldn't expect any fancy HDMI features like audio or ethernet17:42
prpplaguepanda84kde: technically it is basically HDMI without audio17:42
dm8tbrwhat he says17:42
prpplaguepanda84kde: so it does both hdmi and dvi protocols, just no audio support17:43
panda84kdeprpplague: I see, thanks!17:43
prpplaguepanda84kde: which technically doesn't make it HDMI17:43
mranostaymorning17:45
panda84kdeevening17:45
dm8tbrzenlinux: just noticed. on the minnow page, there is a foot note asterisk next to Angstrom Linux* but no footnote to be seen anywhere17:46
zenlinuxdm8tbr, thanks - fixed17:47
dm8tbrtnx17:48
prpplagueoh the jump info is up on the wiki?17:49
* prpplague looks17:49
* dm8tbr ponders if he wants to spend 160+ EUR right now with 2 FRI2 already collecting dust at the moment17:49
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millisHi panda84kde17:54
panda84kdehi millis17:55
mranostaydm8tbr: do it!17:56
panda84kdeCan the emgd driver run on the 3.8 kernel? http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit.cgi/meta-minnow/tree/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-yocto_3.8.bbappend  Is it a newer version of the driver wrt those listed here? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel_GMA3600#News17:56
dm8tbrmranostay: won't have time to play with it until late september...17:56
prpplaguepanda84kde: should be good all the way around, the yocto expert isn't here atm, i'll see if i can get him on the channel17:57
panda84kdeno, problem. I've seen that the "bee" release is numbered 1.0.3, while in the Yocto tree there's a 1.1817:58
prpplaguemillis: greetings17:58
panda84kdedon't know if it's the same numbering though. However, if it's present in Yocto I believe it works17:58
zenlinuxpanda84kde, the Yocto Project team has managed to forward-port emgd to work with the latest kernels we're supporting, which is 3.10 I believe.17:59
prpplaguemillis: welcome to #minnowboard17:59
millisprpplague: Thanks.17:59
zenlinuxI'd check some of the other Yocto Intel BSPs to see if the particular kernel version you're interested in has been supported for a platform that uses EMGD17:59
millisprpplague: trying to explore the platform with panda84kde18:00
prpplaguemillis: dandy18:00
prpplaguemillis: i can answer general hardware questions if needed18:00
panda84kdezenlinux: I was not interested in a particularly new kernel. Just wanted to be sure of not being stuck with a prehistory version :)18:00
panda84kde*prehistoric18:00
millisprpplague: cool man, thanks for your support18:01
prpplaguepanda84kde: yea all development for minnow is 3.8 forward, and we have virtually everything in mainline for 3.1118:01
zenlinuxright, I'm presuming that being able to forward-port it means it should work with previous versions18:01
prpplagueBryanstein: hey bud! they let you in here! hehe18:01
prpplagueBryanstein: long time no see18:01
panda84kdeis the board CE certified? Or there's no interest as it's targetted only as a developer board?18:02
mranostaylegally it has to be18:02
mranostayrpi guys learned that the hard way18:02
panda84kdemranostay: are you referring to this post? http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/87818:03
prpplaguepanda84kde: CE part A18:04
millisprpplague: what about FCC18:05
prpplaguemillis: FCC part A as well18:10
millisprpplague: great job18:11
prpplaguenext revision will have part B as well (which really isn't necessary, but nice to have)18:11
prpplaguepanda84kde: yea , legally if someone sells a board via distribution channels such as digikey and mouser, you have to have certification18:12
panda84kdeprpplague: I see. It's good minnowboard is certified.18:13
dm8tbrpanda84kde: out of curiosity, is that a commercial project you are considering the board for?18:15
millisdm8tbr: actually now we need a demo.18:16
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millisdm8tbr: we are having hard time with ARM and GPU's performances18:16
prpplaguemillis: ahh dandy18:17
millisprpplague: really hard time :)18:17
dm8tbrnot sure if GMA600 is the bestestest choice there18:17
prpplaguemillis: well be sure to ping me or zenlinux with any questions, if we can't answer the questions, we can get someone who can18:17
zenlinuxwe have access to the hive mind18:18
millisdm8tbr: we need a small form factor and a reasonable frame rate. We believe that if the driver is working properly we can match our requirements18:19
millisdm8tbr: but need to try :)18:19
dm8tbryeah, trying is the best option there18:20
dm8tbror if you can produce some portable benchmark binary ask someone here to run it for you18:20
millisdm8tbr: we have a long list of bench with ARM: Vivante and Mali 400 but the problem is the X11 driver that is the real pain here18:20
millisdm8tbr: any of the X11 drivers of those proprietary plat can exploit the REAL power of the GPU18:21
dm8tbrI only have a FRI2, but the others here have the real deal and could try it18:22
millisdm8tbr: I mean any DO NOT18:22
millisdm8tbr: we are ordering the board now :)18:22
dm8tbrthat should work too :)18:23
millisdm8tbr: and for sure we will let you know guys. We are running a 3D game engine18:23
dm8tbrthat might be taxing on the HW in general18:23
millisoh yeah18:24
millisthis is a kind of plan B ... (cross fingers)18:25
dm8tbrare you planning to interface additional sensors to the board for game control?18:25
millisyes18:25
millisBT axl18:25
dm8tbrah18:25
millis518:25
millisto be precise18:25
dm8tbrthat's plenty18:26
millisyes it's challenging18:26
millisbut on a Zotac Platform is running good18:26
millis(bundle PC)18:27
millissee what will happen!18:27
milliswe spent 5 months on ARM/GPU with so many issues18:27
millisgreat SOC but the bottle neck here is always the same: X11 3D drivers18:28
millisthanks guys will let you know...18:29
* zenlinux heads over to mozilla, minnowboard in hand18:35
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dm8tbrmillis: btw, it might not be 100% ready for what you want to do. But you might want to consider going android GLES drivers + libhybris + wayland18:35
dm8tbrboth on ARM and on x86 that might prove interesting18:35
millisdm8tbr: you are right, it's a good point but it seems to be pretty on a early stage and maintained by a single guy.18:37
millisbut something that need to be considered18:37
milliswe assumed that Vivante drivers were working good on Linux, but was not true18:38
dm8tbrmillis: actually there is a whole cross-company team behind libhybris by now18:38
dm8tbrincluding intel people AFAICT18:38
millisI knew about that, I read the blog of the author18:39
dm8tbrand given that they want to ship a product soon :)18:40
dm8tbractually several companies, several products18:40
millisbut do they release something to the community of is something proprietary?18:41
dm8tbrhttps://github.com/libhybris/libhybris/ - all open18:41
millismumble..interesting...need to figure out they wayland part...good!18:43
dm8tbrhit #libhybris and ask, friendly people thar18:43
millisI will18:43
millisdm8tbr: thanks!18:44
dm8tbrnp18:44
dm8tbrheh, I think I could build one of these out of a minnow/fri2/bbb. as sort of an appliance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF419:21
dm8tbrthink, just a power plug and HDMI out19:22
dm8tbrand buttons to switch e.g. from backlight to top light19:22
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mranostaywb zenlinux20:43
zenlinuxhi mranostay, working from mozilla's offices this afternoon20:44
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mranostayzenlinux: in SF?20:46
zenlinuxmranostay, no, they just opened and office in downtown portland a few weeks ago20:46
zenlinuxa block from Powell's on Burnside20:46
mranostayah20:46
Wraithanzenlinux: it is actually across the street from powells20:48
mranostayzenlinux: and they let you in because? :)20:48
Wraithanzenlinux: you can see powells out the north windows20:48
Wraithanmranostay: he hooked us up!20:48
mranostayah free hardware?20:48
zenlinuxright, and I hang out with l33t mozilla peeps like Wraithan pretty regularly20:48
Wraithanmranostay: also he is friends with multiple mozillians20:48
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mranostayseems like PDX has a few tech companies downtown that i didn't know about20:50
Wraithanmranostay: are you in PDX?20:51
mranostayyeah20:52
mranostaywell live20:52
zenlinuxmranostay works in the Intel OTC on Android, and has a good bit of hardware hacking background20:53
WraithanAh20:54
* Wraithan is a hardware hacking noob considering getting a minnowboard for things that my rpi can't handle20:54
* mranostay pretends he didn't hear rpi20:57
mranostayWraithan: what kind of hardware hacking are you looking of doing?20:57
mranostaydamn dvhart also slips away before i can ask him a question20:58
prpplagueka6sox-Alyeska: file.minnowboard.org should be up21:02
zenlinuxprpplague, it's resolving to the wrong IP for me - beagleboardtoys21:03
prpplaguezenlinux: ok, the dns might not be completly updated yet21:11
prpplaguezenlinux: we'll wait till monday to make sure21:11
prpplaguezenlinux: oh you are back21:12
prpplaguezenlinux: the OSH Support digital logos are up21:12
prpplaguezenlinux: can we get that on minnowboard.org asap?21:12
mranostayprpplague: so i'm guessing the mac address is just a EFI var?21:12
prpplaguemranostay: yea i think it is21:13
prpplaguemranostay: dvhart has been messing with that21:13
* prpplague has been too busy on other things21:13
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Wraithanmranostay: I'm still getting into it, playing with various sensors and inputs.21:54
mranostayWraithan: may i suggest a bbb  as well? :)22:01
* zenlinux got his ELC-E talk accepted22:22
mranostayzenlinux: nice you too22:27
mranostaywhat is the title?22:27
zenlinuxmranostay, that screenshot you posted says you were waitlisted?22:27
mranostayzenlinux: for one talk22:27
zenlinuxMy talk is Building Robots than can See22:27
zenlinuxthe Minnow one, though, right?22:27
mranostayyeah22:27
zenlinuxI really wanted to see that talk22:28
zenlinuxwhat's your other talk on? Android?22:28
mranostaysigrok22:28
* zenlinux is unfamiliar with sigrok22:28
biotzenlinux: it's the greatest thing since sliced cheese22:33
biothttp://sigrok.org/22:33
zenlinuxthat does look cool22:35
zenlinuxmy first embeedded project out of college was building sound level monitoring systems22:35
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biotoh yeah? what was it needed for?22:36
mranostaydammit missed dvhart again22:36
biot(um, I'm one of the sigrok people)22:36
biotI find myself strangely fascinated with sound level measurement22:36
zenlinuxbiot, it was for grozier.com, a tiny shop that did custom solutions for concert stadiums, racetracks, etc. where the venue needed to audit sound levels to comply with local regulations22:37
zenlinuxhmm, guess grozier.com is dead22:38
zenlinuxthe guy who ran it is now retired22:38
biotI assume most sound level measurements are done for legal reasons, really22:38
zenlinuxbiot, yeah, in this case the regulations usually came out of a lawsuit dispute between a sound venue and the local community that was upset with the noise22:38
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ka6sox-Alyeskafile or files?23:48
ka6sox-Alyeskawhoops23:48
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