Monday, 2013-09-30

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mfnyhi, anyone here ?03:09
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Jayneilprpplague: ping17:30
prpplagueJayneil: pong17:30
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JayneilI saw maddog's article and hist note on our power consumption. Its kind of surprising that he did not visit the booth(i think so mostly) and yet for no reason he has chosen to blast us because we compare ourselves to Rpi. Rpi is only used to explain beginners and hobbyists our goals and missions by creating a better analogy as many of them only know the arduino and rpi...I agree the VA is close to 10 but the apparent power could be l17:37
Jayneil*actual power17:38
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prpplagueJayneil: yea, as far as i know he never visited the booth, nor spoke with me about it17:40
prpplagueJayneil: and it's the media that always does the comparison to RPi17:40
prpplagueJayneil: we have never mention RPi in any statements17:40
Jayneilprpplague: i see.. yes thats quite true.. the last article by arstechnica was very good and un-biased i feel.17:41
prpplagueJayneil: yes, but it still got a lot of nasty remarks17:42
* prpplague has had a lot of hate mail since last week17:42
dvhartprpplague, stand tall in the storm of adversity...17:42
* dvhart quote shirley manson17:42
bluelightningdvhart: as long as you don't start quoting marilyn manson everything will be OK ;)17:43
dvharthehe.... I have a couple of those as well... (but only from sound tracks)17:44
mranostaybluelightning: oh good reminder... have put that playlist on in awhile17:44
dvhart;-)17:44
mranostay*haven't17:44
ahollerJayneil: you need something like splitlong.pl for irssi ;)17:47
ahollerprpplague: why you get hate mails?17:49
prpplagueaholler: a pretty interesting range of responses17:51
prpplagueaholler: the RPi fans ripping the price and features of the minnow17:51
prpplagueaholler: the OSS purists complaining about the closed source binary support for the GPU17:51
ahollerok, thats understandable ;)17:52
prpplagueaholler: amd gizmo fans attacking me for saying the minnow is the first open hardware platform17:52
prpplagueaholler: i/x8617:52
ahollerbut intel already has something which isn't powervr17:53
prpplagueaholler: problem is that all of them are missing the big picture of the minnow board17:53
prpplagueaholler: yes indeed they do17:53
prpplagueaholler: which is what i keep trying to explain17:53
ahollerso the powervr was a bad decision, maybe because of the power17:54
prpplagueaholler: hehe see you are following their line of reasoning17:54
prpplagueaholler: so.... circuitco had never done an x86 design before, Intel had never done an open design before17:54
ahollerbad experiences with the powervr17:54
prpplagueaholler: we specifically picked an older chip for a reason17:55
prpplagueaholler: 1) we knew all the bugs, 2) we had plenty of references 3) it was a good chip for us to "learn" with17:55
dvhartaholler, keep in mind that the only thing available without powervr that met the technical needs at the time the MinnowBoard was being designed was a Core CPU, which was cost prohibitive17:55
prpplagueaholler: not just circuitco learning, but also Intel learning17:55
dvhartaholler, so he could have waited for the ideal SoC, or gone ahead and done *something*17:56
aholler;)17:56
dvhartwe collectively felt it was better to do *something*17:56
dvhartand I stand by that for the reasons prpplague states17:56
dvhartwe are now in a much better position to create an even more open design.17:56
prpplagueexactly17:56
ahollertrue17:57
dvhartAnd honestly, if demand for open graphics on MinnowBoard is high enough, we can always put an open chip on a PCIe Lure17:57
ahollerbut everyone hates the closed gpu-stuff and had bad experiences. escpecially with the powervr-support for normal users17:58
dvhartaholler, yup, nobody more than us ;-)17:58
prpplagueaholler: agreed, but here is the thing17:58
dvhartthat isn't under dispute at all :-)17:58
prpplagueaholler: even though it is an open platform, it was never targeted at the "hobbyist" group17:58
ahollerbut even other people need gpu-drivers17:58
prpplagueaholler: not really17:59
dvhartaholler, they do need drivers, but they don't care nearly as much about them being open17:59
dvhartsadly17:59
dvhartwhich is why the problem has been perpetuated for so long17:59
dvhartthat is just recently starting to change17:59
ahollerbut getting drivers for kernel x.y is a pain17:59
dvhartyup17:59
prpplagueaholler: minnow was more to compete with this - http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ampro-ADLINK-Technology/STARTERKIT-NANOX-TC-E640-1G/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu5DcJECksadVdbYceVhkRa18:00
prpplagueaholler: i never install the GPU drivers for minnow18:00
prpplagueaholler: only for testing18:00
prpplagueaholler: i simply don't need them18:00
ahollerI don't do that for my beagles too ;)18:00
dvhartThere is hope we'll get some basic support from the gma50018:00
dvhartbut that is a side project not under our control18:00
mranostayaholler: well the beagles at least have HDMI out :P18:01
dvhartwould be nice though, but not as complete as the emgd driver18:01
dvhartmranostay, ?18:01
prpplaguemranostay: technically it is dvi , since there is no audio support and not packetized18:01
mranostayprpplague: i thought it did HDMI audio out?18:02
mranostayor just no support?...18:02
prpplaguemranostay: licensing18:04
mranostayah right18:04
mranostayprpplague: i bet that is like $10 a unit or something insane?18:05
prpplaguemranostay: i can't comment on that18:05
prpplagueaholler: anyway the point is, that minnow has always been able learning for intel and circuitco..... do you really think we don't (and didn't already) know about these issues?18:06
ahollerno, I just was interested in the topic of the hate mails18:07
prpplagueaholler: hehe18:07
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mranostaywhat is a good test for peak power usage?18:07
mranostayrunning john or something?18:08
ahollerbzip2smp18:08
patrikHaters are gonna hate, and whiners are gonna whine. Don't let it get to you guys you're doing a great job!18:08
dvhartpatrik, hey, thanks :-)18:08
prpplaguemranostay: there is a small assembly program that you can get that basically eats of cpu cycles, so you pass an arg to it with the cpu load you want to generate18:08
prpplaguepatrik: thanks18:09
prpplaguepatrik: the lizzy lures are being assembled now, as soon as we get them tested we'll get one off to you18:09
prpplaguepatrik: did you get a bob lure as well?18:09
patrikNo I didn't get any lures, but right now I got what I need for the gma500 work.18:10
mranostayprpplague: remember the name?18:10
prpplaguemranostay: ??18:12
prpplaguepatrik: ahh ok18:12
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zenlinuxmorning all18:15
prpplaguezenlinux: how dare you speak to us like that!18:15
zenlinuxfwiw I sent maddog a long email last Thurs, haven't heard back from him yet18:15
zenlinuxI expected a lot more from him in particular18:16
_av500_mranostay: the issue is not $1018:16
_av500_its that for HDMI you need to get DHCP too18:16
_av500_so you need to get HDMI member and all that18:16
mranostayprpplague: assembly program.. or can i do mov eax,eax in a infinite loop? :)18:17
dvhartpatrik, I've been spending some time with the EMGD driver folks on the EDID communication over GPIO SUS 0-4.... fun stuff. If you want to discuss options for gma500, I've got some context there that might be of some use to you. Or maybe you already solved that :-)18:18
dvhart(only impacts LVDS)18:18
ahollerit's a crazy world18:19
_av500_nah18:19
ahollerlooking at which silly patents do exist, it is18:20
ahollersome of them just needed a few hours of thinking18:20
ahollerif at all18:20
patrikdvhart, I haven't look much at LVDS yet but that is one Lure I would need when I get SDVO running. But I didn't think most we usually do EDID for LVDS. They're always supplied in the VBIOS and I think the driver currently detects something for LVDS atm18:22
patriks/most/18:22
dvhartpatrik, better still18:22
dvhartI'll defer to you on that. Let me know if it comes up.18:23
patriksure18:24
_av500_aholler: old rant is old18:24
dvhartthanks for looking at this!18:24
patrikzenlinux, btw, I converted an ubuntu installation from BIOS to UEFI the other day with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair18:25
aholler_av500_: doesn't make it less crazy18:25
patrikzenlinux, not for the minnow though, but maybe that can be done for a ubuntu install iso to get it to boot uefi with 32-bit. But maybe you've already solved it.18:26
zenlinuxpatrik, thanks for that - I'm definitely still looking for long-term solutions to this18:27
prpplaguezenlinux: yea, i plan to post a response next week after i return from rome18:27
zenlinuxprpplague, to the maddog article?18:28
zenlinuxI'm debating whether to edit a couple of things out of the email I sent to him and make it an open letter, but I'm not looking for a big confrontation. Just an opportunity to set the record straight.18:28
prpplaguezenlinux: yea, i am not looking for it either, things will become clear in enough as time goes on18:30
zenlinuxtrue dat18:30
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zenlinuxI'm looking for a cheap bench power supply, anyone have some recommendations? Budget < $10018:31
zenlinuxSaw this on Ebay, seems too good to be true: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linear-Bench-Power-Supply-Adjustable-0-30-Volts-0-5-Amps-CSI530S-/221060865418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378411d8a#shpCntId18:32
prpplaguezenlinux: sfe has some good ones18:32
prpplaguezenlinux: but i think they are over $20018:33
zenlinuxyeah, that's out of my budget. I figure if want something higher end I can troll ebay for something used.18:33
prpplaguezenlinux: http://www.frys.com/product/5095835?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG18:35
prpplaguezenlinux: that one is pretty decent18:35
zenlinuxcool, thx18:36
_av500_dm8tbr: cue power supply18:39
_av500_prpplague: on these PSUs, dont you fear the pot will go bad and fry your stuff with 30V?18:40
patrikI got one of these http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/powe/PS613_DualOutput0-30VPS.htm a couple of years ago and it's been working fine. Though haven't really used it that much.18:41
prpplague_av500_: i've not had any issues with that before18:41
_av500_patrik: +1 on the speaker terminals :)18:41
_av500_prpplague: gues I have been burnt by the uni lab power supplies18:42
_av500_burnt indeed :)18:42
patrik_av500_, I think the "short-circuit and overload protection" was the main selling point for me ;)18:43
prpplague_av500_: i have 4 of those supplies and never had a failure18:45
prpplague_av500_: guess i have been lucky18:45
_av500_get some students to bang them around for a few years18:45
_av500_or decades18:46
prpplaguehehe18:46
_av500_http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-1000001612%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-66309D/dual-mobile-communications-dc-source-w-dvm?&cc=DE&lc=ger18:47
_av500_I can recommend this one18:47
* prpplague looks18:48
_av500_$150 10ys back used18:48
_av500_:)18:48
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prpplaguezenlinux: http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-44302-Handheld-Digital-Microscope/dp/B001UQ6E4E21:10
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