Saturday, 2014-05-31

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-asimov.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp03:48
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HazeBeehey all11:55
HazeBeeim in the process of looking at purchasing a singleboard computer for a test server but would also like to have arduino capabilities to play with, in terms of hardware, does the ODROID-XU pretty much lead the market in technical specs? I've only just discovered the minnowboard and it's passionate community11:57
HazeBeeCurrently im tossing up between a UDOO, a O-Droid & the Minnow11:58
HazeBeeAs I'm a C++ cpde the i86 architecture of the minnow is appealing12:00
HazeBeeerr 'cpde' = coder12:01
tbrit sounds a bit like you might be better off with an arduino AND a SBC12:46
HazeBeeyeah thats right, both the UDOO and O-Droid are SBC/Arduino hybrids, having just started researching the minnow I now get it's less of a SBC and more a blank slate of hardware12:55
HazeBeealthough rom what I gather in the last 30 or so mins the Minnow board max would be able to run linux12:56
HazeBeeok to revise that last sentence, it of course can run both linux and windows being i86, but differers from a standard SBC in which you can re-write code at a hardware level13:00
HazeBee[rather than simply execute code thanks to said hardware]13:00
smurrayI think you mean microcontroller (MCU), e.g. Arduino13:03
smurraynone of the three boards you've mentioned are MCUs like an Arduino, but rather full CPUs13:03
smurraythe UDOO effectively has an Arduino glued to it, though13:05
smurraythe equivalent to an UDOO for x86 is the Galileo board13:06
HazeBeeahhh thanks for explaining, the UDOO having the 'glued arduino' made it confusing for me13:07
HazeBeethey sell it to the consumer as having arduino integration13:07
smurraythe UDOO has both an i.MX6 CPU and the Arduino MCU on the same board13:08
smurrayuseful if you want to use Arduino shields as is, and allows using the Arduino programming environment13:09
smurraythe Minnow boards have the I/O for H/W interfacing, but as you were saying earlier are programmed differently13:10
HazeBeeinteresting, i'm not familiar with i.MX6 architecture though so would have to look into it13:10
smurraythe Minnow does make life easier in that regard13:11
HazeBeeThe intel galieleo being x86 means code effectively compiled by suites like visual studio would be supported13:11
tbrugh, so many misconceptions, head asplode13:13
HazeBeelol sorry, ? was missinga t the end13:13
HazeBeeill ask some painful fundemental questions13:14
HazeBeeVS, as a compiler, allows you to choose between compliation for x32 and x64 based CPU's. For CPU's other than those, like ARM or what not, I simply port my projects to the other compiler?13:15
tbrVS is a windoze thing. While technically possible, nobody seems to run that on minnow13:15
tbralso I'd expect VS to be able to produce winRT binaries, given the proper toolchain13:16
tbrwinRT → ARM13:16
HazeBeeok I take it you use codeblocks under linux or QT or the like13:19
smurraycodeblocks?13:20
HazeBeeI've been trained the last two years in visual studio 2010....on a mac.....using boot camp....god damn uni heh13:20
HazeBeeoh it's just a popular linux compiler that can produce binaries for windows & linux13:21
smurrayif you mean codeblocks.org, it looks like an IDE, it can use different compilers13:22
HazeBeeah right sorry, i think it uses mingw or something on the backend, im not particualyy linux savey13:22
smurrayon Linux, it'd be gcc13:23
smurraymingw is a port of gcc to Windows13:23
HazeBeeahh right, these are the things you forget quickely with ubuntu's auto install everything for me functions13:24
HazeBeeok jumping back to the initial question, im looking for a SBC that can do two things, run XBMC and 2 - Use the A* algorithims i've written that take emergent behaviour into account13:25
HazeBeeYour reccomendation would be - any XBMC capable SBC and an ardunio?13:26
smurraydoes your algorithm code need to interface to H/W?13:27
smurraye.g. sensors?13:27
tbrfor XBMC you'll want some thing that has hardware accelerated decoding13:28
HazeBeecurrently it knows the bounds of the environment it is in, it's not a learning algorithim so it doenst hit walls then remembers them, so yes sensors would need to be applied13:28
smurraywhat have you been running that code on up until now?13:29
HazeBee3D simulation with bullet for physics / openGL13:29
HazeBeeI input a maze in 2D, it renders it with voxels, and they try and they just move to random specified nodes13:30
HazeBeeif they find items along the way, then find another entity looking for an item, it will tell that entity where to go collect it, etc13:32
HazeBeepretty simple A-Star video game stuff13:33
smurraybuilding a robot around a minnowboard to do that should be somewhat straightforward13:35
HazeBeeI figure I have a central server[pc] to monitor them and they send wifi data to each other and a copy to me so I can plot it in terms of 2D and (actually looking at them) in the 'real' 3d environment13:37
HazeBeedoes the minnow ide support c++ or c?13:40
* tbr ponders if that A* code would fit on an MCU, probably yes13:41
HazeBeehaha i just realized my logic error there, are minnow board arduino compatible out of the box?13:42
tbrwhich means you could just use microcontroller operated robots and as control node something more powerful13:42
HazeBeebut i do like the idea of directly writing their logic into a chip13:43
tbryour question indicates that you have zero clue about what's an arduino and what a full blown CPU/SoC does13:43
HazeBeecorrect! im trying to learn13:43
smurrayThere are lots of Arduino pages out there13:44
HazeBeeI know what a cpu does of course....but the diffference between micro-controllers and processors I should probably research instead of annoying you13:44
tbrHazeBee: one you run your code directly on, 'bare metal' and the other comes with an "operating system" on top of a "kernel"13:45
tbrhow do you want to track location of the robots?13:45
HazeBeeright cpu using its gate if/and/or/else logic being your bare metal13:45
tbrnot exactly13:46
HazeBeeah darn thought I almost had it hehe13:46
HazeBeeI pictured the cpu as a gate tree13:46
tbrbare metal in this context means that you compile machine code that then directly operates the MCU with no layer inbetween13:46
HazeBeeRight so your not even asking the cpu to compute if a statement happens, your just telling it to do something?13:47
tbrHazeBee: CS student?13:48
HazeBeeyep13:48
smurraywhoa13:48
tbrwelcome to reality13:48
tbryou will need EE skills here too, but many people went this way before you and you just need to read and learn13:48
HazeBeekind of funny I can program opengl, understand matracies, quaternions, AI and not know these things....13:49
tbrshould have gone into EE if you wanted to13:49
tbrCS is extremely theoretical and detached from hardware and real aspects13:50
HazeBeeI want to work in A.I research as a programmer, but would like to learn EE as a hobby13:50
tbrmind you that has it's applications ofc13:50
HazeBeeim kind of mind blown that a cpu can just be told what to do without following a logic gate, I suppose that makes more sense on the realms of physical matter though13:53
tbrI'd recommend to "wikipedia surf" the topics of "microcontroller" and "system on chip"13:54
tbrfollow some links get an idea how things fit together, what the differences are13:54
tbrit will help you to understand what would fit your needs13:54
HazeBeeso the kernal's are basically ways for if/and/or/else/do/while to interface with particular physical material components13:54
HazeBeeok will do13:54
tbrit might be that for your autonomous nodes a microcontroller is enough.13:55
HazeBeethankyou for not treating me like a total fool either, despite 2 years of computer-science at uni these kinds of things are not discussed, we take such matters for granted13:55
tbrIf it's too constrained then you'll have to look at something like a beagleboneblack or a minnowmax to power it13:55
tbrno worries, just trying to get you into a direction where you'll be able to answer your own questions13:56
HazeBeeyears of learning how to code makes me wise enough to know thats the best way to learn, cheers, off to google with me :)13:57
HazeBeewow SoC's are neat...and I thank god I dont have to debug them.14:16
HazeBeewhile I continue reading Wikipedia...is it hard/possible to reverse engineer a SoC?14:20
HazeBeeas in reading it's EPROM data?14:22
HazeBeeim guessing the machine code i see when I step through a program is it's internal RAM data..14:24
HazeBeewait ignore me as i read about micro-processors and NOR flash and OTP ROM im finding the answers14:26
tbr:)14:27
tbrSoC internal workings can vary a lot14:28
HazeBeewhy I was never taught what an integrated circuit is and the difference between a Microprocessor and a Microcontroller in my programming degree is beyond me, this is all fascinating. Engineers must hate new-age programmers who take it all for granted lol.14:32
HazeBeeIt makes me wonder why bitcoin ASICS took so long to be developed, guessing the EE field is very complex past arbritary defintions of how it works14:37
tbrthere is this joke among EEs, EEs are the better software engineers ;)14:48
HazeBeehaha scarily similar to the joke among programmers, if your not programming in c/c++ your a script writer.14:53
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HazeBeerelevant xkcd: http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/hierarchy.png14:58
HazeBeeOh god I was learning things, why did I look at XKCD...anyway here's one a electronic engineer would appreciate, I say knowing full well you've seen every decent xkcd ever penned http://xkcd.com/670/15:05
tbrpsh, no shell scripting?15:07
HazeBeehttp://xkcd.com/554/ ;)15:20
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HazeBeewell i now have a folder full of wiki articles to reference in order to help me answer my question as well as learning a whole lot about circuits, processors & controllers, I think the last time I was on IRC I was downloading !warez4u on a 52k modem, glad to see it's still full of amazing people.15:49
HazeBeenight :)15:49
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