Thursday, 2014-07-10

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Bhaalprpplague: Hey is the max being shipped without an RTC?08:16
koenrtc is in the chipset08:17
Bhaalor just without the back up battery?08:17
koenthe battery isn't :)08:17
aholler_rtc-less (at least without battery-holder) has become an industry-standard08:19
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Bhaalaholler: I know, and its darn annoying08:22
av500use cloud-time08:22
BhaalSo, this is that is meant to go there?
inflexI have to admit, I'd probably just go with NTC sync08:23
BhaalAs will I...08:24
aholler and
aholleryou can combine these two and build an hid-usb-rtc08:26
ahollerit should be even possible just to use an attiny with a battery08:27
BhaalOr, just a battery :)08:27
ahollersure, if you have the needed sw-changes and connections08:28
BhaalOh, so even though the is in the chipset its not available via kernel etc?08:30
ahollerI don't know08:30
* tbr remembers a certain multimedia tablet with an ATmega as PMIC and RTC...08:32
aholleran at* might be cheaper than a real rtc. atmel has application notes with sw for clocks08:36
ahollerso all what's necessary to build an usb-rtc is an attiny, a battery-holder, some diodes to switch power between usb and battery and a bit sw08:45
BhaalFairymuff...  Its not really really required, I was just wondering why the space for the battery was there if there was no RTC support...08:47
ahollera wireless rtc is possible too ;)08:52
ahollerbut you won't get the time before userland starts, which is possible with usb08:55
aholleran initramfs or initrd would help, but I've never seen did that for ntp. maybe someone has to post instructions how to build an early-in-ram-userspace ust to set the time through ntp because harddisk are accessed ;)08:59
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ahollermaybe someone should ask distributions to offer a knob to set the time through ntp already in their initrd. unfortunately they then will have to setup some networking there too.09:13
seaLnewhat does it do if it isn't provided with a time soure? default to 1970-01-01?09:16
aholleryes. some non-battery-powered rtc are defaulting to 2000. the problem with no time is the fsck-mechanism is usually broken.09:17
ahollerso either fsck runs never or always09:18
seaLnehmm doesn't sound that great then09:21
ahollersome other early started stuff might become confused too. it depends, the problem is most people in the x86-world never start linux without having at least a somewhat correct time.09:27
Bhaalkoen: So if I add the battery will the RTC be detected and used?09:28
koenif the driver is enabled in the kernel (rtc_cmos iirc) it will be used regardless of battery09:46
koenit won't keep time after cold restart, though09:47
koenif the default is like the minnow 1 and fri2, the driver will be disabled09:47
BhaalWhy defaulted to disabled?09:55
koen"because yocto makes it so easy to recompile your kernel"09:56
koenor, more likely09:56
koen"we don't actually use the boards, what does an RTC do anyway"?09:56
BhaalOh...  I'd not be using yocto, was going to just throw ubuntu server or debian on it09:56
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BhaalFor which RTC I would assume is already turned on...10:10
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BhaalHurry Max's, arrive at Mouser already!11:34
thaytanthey can't hear you, Bhaal11:37
thaytanthey're computers, in boxes11:37
BhaalShhh, you'll hurt their feelings!11:44
prpplagueBhaal: the coin cell battery holder on the max is not populated14:19
prpplagueBhaal: it's a through hole part14:20
prpplagueBhaal: so you can easily solder it on14:20
prpplagueBhaal: the UEFI and Coreboot firmware images support the RTC14:20
prpplagueBhaal: so any OS that has a driver for the RTC will  be able to use it14:20
* Bhaal is happy to hear that14:21
BhaalI do have ways to get around not having a battery, but batteries are cheap14:22
BhaalOh, prpplague, maximum SD card size?14:34
Bhaal(if any)14:34
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prpplaguedvhart: ping ping15:22
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prpplaguedvhart_: ping16:01
prpplaguewarthog9: that kingston msata violates the msata specs16:01
dvhart_prpplague, pong16:03
mmetzgerSemi-random question - can a Max PXE boot?16:04
dvhart_mmetzger, the firmware has Network boot support, but it isn't something I've tested yet16:05
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dvhart_it's on the list16:05
mmetzgerdvhart_: Thanks!16:05
cyrozapmmetzger: You could also boot iPXE, then PXE boot from there16:20
mmetzgercyrozap: Thanks - considering the Max for some thin client projects among other things.16:21
dvhart_mmetzger, /me bumps PXE testing up on the prio list16:24
mmetzgerdvhart_: It's not that important overall, was mainly curious.  I'm happy to test it myself when my board comes in.16:26
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prpplaguedvhart_: ping17:23
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kappa12981what would be the easiest way to interface max board with mini pcie capture card before the lure is available?18:00
prpplaguekappa12981: there isn't an easy way unless you want to spin your own board18:00
kappa12981prpplague: ah bummer. any ETA on the mini pcie lure?18:01
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prpplaguekappa12981: should be ready at the same time the bulk production shipments18:01
kappa12981prpplague: oh wow. nice. one more ?: what is normal boot time to angstrom from sd card?18:02
prpplaguekappa12981: that is difficult to answer as it all depends on what you have configured18:03
kappa12981prpplague: just normal out of box experience? just looking for a rough estimate18:03
prpplaguekappa12981: i can't give you one18:04
dvhart_kappa12981, it doesn't ship with Angstrom and it doesn't ship with an SD card :-)18:04
prpplaguekappa12981: i rarely use angstrom18:04
prpplaguekappa12981: and i tend to use usb3 thumbdrive for normal testing18:04
warthog9kappa12981: under a minute with crappy sd cards18:04
dvhart_depends on the card18:04
warthog9I think my usb3 thumbdrive boots in 20 seconds or so, I can time it if you want18:05
dvhart_I boot in just a few seconds from USB3 and mSATA18:05
dvhart_using my Yocto XFCE image18:05
kappa12981dvhart_: thanks that's helpful18:05
dvhart_also, depends on from when to when, power-on or grub18:05
kappa12981power on18:05
dvhart_OK, then currently the bulk of the time is actually spent in firmware18:05
dvhart_as the firmware is still under development18:05
dvhart_there is a fast boot option which is being worked on18:06
dvhart_but the focus is on functionality still, not performance.18:06
dvhart_but that will come18:06
dvhart_For what it's worth, my goal is power on to graphical shell in 2 seconds18:06
dvhart_anything more is a bug IMHO18:06
kappa12981wow that would be great18:07
kappa12981my vxworks machines are longer than that to boot18:07
tbrdvhart_: you could do automotive with that ;)18:07
kappa12981is there only one pcie connection to CPU? will there be a lure with more than one mini pcie slot?18:07
dvhart_tbr, why yes... yes you could ;-)18:07
tbr(as they seem to have a 2 s limit for some things)18:08
dvhart_interesting coincidence that...18:08
dvhart_kappa12981, just the one PCIe lane18:08
dvhart_the CPU has 4, one is tied up with the MAC18:09
dvhart_one for internal bits (iirc), one over the high speed connector, and one NC18:09
dvhart_keeping costs down18:09
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macmeckGood to hear that Minnowboard MAX is now officially ready for pre-orders. Any update on the seacat lure which was said to be available together with the new board?18:23
warthog9kappa12981: with a 10 second grub timeout, and from power on to gui with a usb3 boot device: 42 seconds18:29
warthog9I do not claim I have the fastest usb3 drive, or the latest and fastest image that dvhart has18:30
dvhart_That also includes a 5 second firmware timeout18:31
dvhart_37 seconds for me with 15 seconds of timeouts18:32
dvhart_so that's 22 seconds18:32
dvhart_much longer than I thought :-)18:33
dvhart_lots of work to do here18:33
dvhart_this needs to be 2 seconds18:33
warthog9but we haven't really tried optimizing this18:33
dvhart_not at all18:33
kappa12981warthog9: thanks for checking that out18:35
kappa12981dvhart_: thanks too18:35
kappa12981is the firmware open source too18:37
prpplague<kappa12981> prpplague: ah bummer. any ETA on the mini pcie lure?18:37
prpplague* VoltVisionSteve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)18:37
prpplague<prpplague> kappa12981: should be ready at the same time the bulk production shipments18:37
macmeckwhich is... end of june? ;-)18:38
prpplaguemacmeck: end of july18:39
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dvhartkappa12981: we're working on the firmware, but no, not yet20:35
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prpplaguedvhart / warthog9
carpmanahh, good, ika means squid in japanese21:34
* Bryanstein still waiting on the minnow :oP22:22
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