Wednesday, 2014-12-17

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warthog9trickstarter: there's a rumor running around right now that shipping on lures will be free till Dec 24th00:11
warthog9trickstarter: keep an eye out for something tomorrow00:11
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WormManany rumors on stock/ship dates for Minnowboard max's yet?00:46
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* inflex is still waiting.... amazing how popular they are01:10
inflex( well, not really, of course they're popular! )01:10
WormManyea, I have a whole horrible plan involving a Mill and a 1u case to mount mine, once it arrives :)01:18
trickstarterHm I guess I jumped too early on the lure, I just paid $13 for shipping :-(01:23
trickstarterwormMan: 1u case? Are you mounting 16 of them or something??!01:24
WormMantrickstarter: 1 Minnowmax, 1 Banana Pi, maybe a second Minnowmax, and then using the 1u case power supply to feed a couple USB/eSATA enclosures and another system that runs off 12V to reduce the number of power bricks to 001:25
trickstarterWormMan: I’m sort of going the opposite way, I’ve got a msata lure on the way, a 1TB msata SSD waiting, and I’m running xen. I’m going to consolidate my physical wifi ap/router and my existing esx virtual machines all on to one minnowmax, aiming for the least power use I can :D01:27
trickstarterIn the smallest space01:27
WormManwell, this is making it so my actual fileserver can just run on weekends01:28
WormManwhen I need to access the video/photos over its 10G link01:28
WormManalthough virtualizing the minnowmax is an interesting idea01:29
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trickstarterIt doesn’t have a lot of ram to play with, obviously, but it depends what your needs are I guess. I’ve nearly got my setup cemented. 2GB gets me what I need for now. I think I saw somewhere there mighe be a m/max quad core variant eventually, and I presume that would have a little more RAM, so if memory seems tight there’s a possible upgrade path one day..01:39
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Saadi@warthog9 this card "MaxLure-Ika" is still not avaliable04:56
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warthog9Saadi: I know04:57
warthog9I need to loop back with CircuitCo on it04:57
Saadiok04:58
ka6soxwarthog9, minor tweaks and I'm done: https://github.com/ka6sox/Cuttlebone_Lure/blob/master/hardware/cuttle_lure_front.jpg04:58
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prpplagueka6sox: you didn't add any adc?05:15
warthog9prpplague: I told him he should add some in05:15
warthog9chain it off the i2c05:15
ka6soxI've been waiting for prpplague to have time to work with me on this.05:16
ka6soxhe is a busy guy :)05:16
warthog9ka6sox: make him work on it on x-mas day ;-)05:16
prpplaguewarthog9: only witch gets my attention on xmas05:16
prpplaguewarthog9: well maybe the z80 board05:17
warthog9hmpf :-P05:17
* warthog9 is doing the glorious task of moving domsin to a new registrar05:19
ka6soxgah…not fun05:20
ka6soxwarthog9, I did research and didn't find any capes that I could use with the rest of the I/O available on the LS connector05:21
ka6sox(none still in production and there was only 1 that used it and I don't have nearly enough I/O on the LS connector to support it)05:21
warthog9ka6sox: yeah I decided domaindiscover turned tierra.net was no longer reputable05:23
warthog9so I'm moving them to gandi.net05:24
warthog93 domains already there, moving 7 mor enow05:24
ka6soxdoes Calimari not have A/D?05:25
ka6soxyes, it does...05:26
ka6soxso I didn't want to duplicate functionality just for Bacon Cape.05:26
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holoadrihi there, some available?09:32
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PuffDragon__morning13:22
PuffDragon__where can I find Debian 8.0 ISO file ?13:22
PuffDragon__Can't seem to find it anywhere13:22
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tbrhow is that related to the minnowboard?13:34
PuffDragon__because the mb max recommends using debian 8.013:34
tbryou could still ask debian though13:35
tbrthe best advice I can give you is to go to the debian page and install testing13:35
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PuffDragon__is "testing" 8.0 ?13:52
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PuffDragon__dammit15:27
PuffDragon__I thought it would be easy to install linux15:27
trickstarterI have installed Ubuntu 14.07.1 without any issue15:28
trickstarterfyi15:28
trickstartersorry, 14.04.115:29
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PuffDragon__I've made a Debian 8.0 live usb15:36
PuffDragon__and I have a USB3.0 that I want to be the main drive15:36
PuffDragon__now what ?15:36
PuffDragon__The MB max will not boot if a usb is connected to the hub15:37
PuffDragon__trickstarter,15:38
PuffDragon__is installing from usb to usb a problem ?15:39
trickstarterI did exactly that15:39
PuffDragon__did you plug your bootable usb into a usb hub ?15:39
trickstarterI did, yes. I made a live usb of the ubuntu installer, plugged to a usb 2.0 hub (unpowered). I had had the USB HDD plugged right to the mailboard though. I figured the power draw of the drive warranted use on a dedicated port15:40
PuffDragon__thats what I;m doing15:41
trickstarterso usb keyboard and usb flash driver wit hinstaller, plugged to hub, plugged to one port, then the usb hdd on the other usb port15:41
trickstarterok15:41
PuffDragon__the max freezes when I insert a usb drive into the hub15:41
PuffDragon__its very strange15:41
PuffDragon__it freezes, and resumes when I take it out15:41
trickstarteris your psu up to scratch?15:41
PuffDragon__its a powered hub15:41
PuffDragon__the main PSU is 2A15:42
trickstarterIf you have the minnow unplugged, insert everything, the power up the minnow, does it start up?15:43
PuffDragon__will test15:43
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PuffDragon__no15:53
PuffDragon__its very weird15:53
PuffDragon__when I plug in the drive to the hub, the board freezes15:53
PuffDragon__if its in a middle of the countdown, it will freeze15:54
PuffDragon__and resume when I unplug it15:54
PuffDragon__trickstarter,15:54
PuffDragon__I'm going to find another usb drive and check15:54
trickstarterYeah sounds like suspicious hardware15:58
PuffDragon__although it works, if I plug it with the hub16:02
PuffDragon__and I tried two different hubs, both are powered16:02
PuffDragon__I mean, i works if I plug it WITHOUT the hub16:03
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trickstarterOdd, but you need the hub right? Or do you have a serial cable you can navigate with16:15
trickstarterPuffDragon__: I remember seeing somewhere there was an issue with the boards taking power off the usb port when they shouldnt, maybe that was something to do with it. try the hubs without power? worth a shot16:16
prpplaguetrickstarter: no, incorrect16:16
prpplaguetrickstarter: the issue was that some hubs that don't meet USB specifications can "back power" the max16:16
prpplaguetrickstarter: i.e. power from the hub is pushed into the max16:16
prpplaguePuffDragon__: what issue are you seeing?16:17
trickstarterprpplague: that’s what I was referring to. puffdragon is having issues with a connected hub interferring with usb work, i was just suggesting it as something to try16:17
prpplaguetrickstarter: ahh ok, i didnt get all the info16:18
* prpplague hasn't had enough coffee this morning16:18
trickstarterPardon me insinuating the issue was with the max :-)16:18
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prpplaguetrickstarter: hehe no worries, it was me that jumped16:29
prpplaguetrickstarter: better now.... cup of coffee16:30
trickstarter:-)16:30
seaLnewhat is supposed to happen after "MemoryInit Done" in the boot process? i'm getting that on the serial console then nothing after even a 10min wait, any ideas? its firmware is 0.7116:38
prpplagueseaLne: normally you should see the screen clear, and the init for display started16:39
prpplagueseaLne: what all do you have plugged into the max?16:40
seaLnea usb3 pendrive and the serial to usb adaptor powered with 3A 5v16:41
seaLnei've tried without the pendrive as well, same result16:42
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prpplagueseaLne: but you do get some serial output on the console, but nothing after the memory init?16:42
seaLneyeah16:43
prpplagueodd16:43
seaLneD2 doesn't go off with a short press of the switch16:43
prpplagueseaLne: what about a long press?16:44
seaLneyeah that still works16:44
prpplagueseaLne: can you pastebin the boot log from the serial console?16:44
prpplagueseaLne: i assume the board has been working in the past, is that correct?16:45
seaLneok, thats weird after long press then short press it seems to have come back to life16:45
seaLneyeah was all fine earlier today16:45
seaLnehmm booting fine now, must have got itself confused16:47
prpplagueseaLne: there is a situation where the firmware will need to recover some space in the nvram16:47
prpplagueseaLne: sometimes this can take a little while16:47
prpplagueseaLne: we added a "message" on the later versions of the firmware to let you know what is going on16:47
prpplagueseaLne: i suspect that is what happened16:47
seaLnewas that added after 0.71?16:48
prpplagueyea16:48
seaLneok, thanks16:48
seaLnei'll upgrade now then, been meaning to for a while16:48
prpplagueseaLne: please note that the 0.73 does have a few issues with the hdmi display16:50
prpplagueseaLne: some people have reported not working after upgrade from 0.7116:50
prpplagueseaLne: so if you are working with something display specific , keep that in mind16:50
seaLneok16:51
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ka6soxwere the issues with GPIO/Alt function prior to 0.71 related to pinmuxing or something else?17:09
ka6sox(on the low speed connector)17:09
seaLnewarthog9: any news on if technodisti are going to do the free shipping you were talking about?17:15
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seaLneotherwise $134 shipping to the UK is a bit crazy17:24
trickstarterAnd I was grumbing about the $14 I paid…..17:28
seaLnetrickstarter: was that within USA?17:30
trickstarterit was17:30
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PuffDragon__hey guys17:59
PuffDragon__do you know that the MB max puts out enough RFI to kill our GPS signal18:00
PuffDragon__:)18:00
trip0ohrly?18:00
PuffDragon__rly18:00
trip0seems difficult to swallow.  GPS signal is IR18:01
tbrwell cpu clock is pretty close to the frequency band. running it without a case has very good chances at RFI18:02
PuffDragon__trip0, GPS is IR ? Infra Red ? srsly ?18:03
* WormMan scratches off 'use minnoboard in plane'18:04
WormMan:)18:04
WormManalso, spelling apparently18:04
PuffDragon__can I underclock the board ?18:05
warthog9seaLne: I havent seen an e-mail yet, and good grief that is insane18:10
PuffDragon__hi warthog918:11
*** PuffDragon__ is now known as HoloPed218:11
HoloPed2thats better18:11
prpplagueHoloPed2: max passes all FCC/CE specs for part A and part B, with a standard off the shelf wal-wart18:13
prpplagueHoloPed2: there are some errata about using usb3 along side some of the wifi and GPS though18:13
prpplagueHoloPed2: you may be running into something for that18:13
HoloPed2prpplague, no wifi18:14
HoloPed2we have it mounted on our quadcopter18:14
HoloPed2the minute we power up the MAX, we lose GPS signal18:14
HoloPed2tried with a separate battery18:14
HoloPed2if the max is powered up far away, GPS works, bring it close, GPS signal dies18:14
HoloPed2I'm pretty sure RF is the cause18:15
prpplagueHoloPed2: right, i didn't say it wasn't18:15
prpplagueHoloPed2: are you using the USB3 on the max?18:15
HoloPed2yes18:15
HoloPed2thats the only thing that plugged in18:15
prpplagueHoloPed2: try the same test using the usb2 instead18:15
HoloPed2ok18:16
prpplagueHoloPed2: usb thumb drive?18:16
HoloPed2yes18:16
prpplagueis it a usb3 thumb drive?18:16
HoloPed2yes18:16
HoloPed2i'm going to try it now without anything18:17
prpplagueok18:17
HoloPed2it will boot into shell18:17
prpplagueyes it should18:17
HoloPed2right, i'm going to check if that makes a difference18:17
HoloPed2brb18:18
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HoloPed2didn't help18:37
prpplagueHoloPed2: i just ran a few tests with my gps stuff here but didn't see an issue18:38
prpplagueHoloPed2: what gps module and antenna are you using18:38
trip0HoloPed: sorry, GPS is microwave..18:38
HoloPed2prpplague, this is the gps antenna18:40
HoloPed2http://www.taoglas.com/antennas/GPS-GLONASS_Antennas/Internal_GPS_-_Passive_Ceramic_Patch_Antennas/18:40
HoloPed2the last one, the 35mm18:40
trip0you can also mitigate by putting the antenna farther away from power supplies and other noisy things18:40
* prpplague looks18:40
prpplagueHoloPed2: that should be fine18:42
prpplagueHoloPed2: i do know we have about a half dozen people using the max with GPS with quad copter stuff18:42
HoloPed2I guess our GPS didn't get that memo18:42
prpplagueHoloPed2: so i suspect there is something missing18:42
prpplagueHoloPed2: what gps module are you  using?18:43
HoloPed2the flight controller is AutoQuad18:43
HoloPed2i'm not sure which module it uses18:43
HoloPed2I can check18:44
prpplague uBlox LEA-6T18:45
HoloPed2yeah18:45
* prpplague orders one for testing18:47
HoloPed2oh18:48
prpplagueHoloPed2: is your autoquad system being powered/grounded by the same connections as the minnowmax?18:48
HoloPed2yes, but we also tried powering the max from a separate power source18:48
HoloPed2same result18:48
prpplagueinteresting18:49
prpplagueyou might trying disabling the PCIe and SATA channels in the bios setup18:50
prpplaguethat should give a little better power consumption too18:50
prpplagueHoloPed2: i order two different lea-6t modules for eval18:51
prpplagueHoloPed2: i'll get those in a week or so18:51
prpplagueHoloPed2: https://plus.google.com/u/0/114974073938562763998/posts/RLH42tJPstC18:52
HoloPed2good idea18:52
prpplagueHoloPed2: this is one of the guys doing quad copter stuff with max18:52
HoloPed2we also tried enabled the clock smoothing option18:52
prpplagueHoloPed2: the pcie does a 100MHz reference clock that can generate some noise18:53
* warthog9 waves at HoloPed 19:07
warthog9ohhh we have two HoloPed HoloPed2 !19:07
HoloPed2yes19:08
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HoloPed2this HoloPed is on his laptop :)19:08
* warthog9 points HoloPed at znc ;-)19:11
* warthog9 has typed the last 3 things on 3 different machines19:11
HoloPed2yeah I should set that up19:12
HoloPed2but I rarely use this laptop19:12
warthog9mind you I need to do some work on my own znc setup19:13
HoloPed2BTW, trickstarter , I tried with a different USB drive and it works19:15
HoloPed2that one drive is cursed19:15
HoloPed2or maybe I am cursed19:16
HoloPed2as a lot of weird stuff always seems to happen just to me19:16
trickstarterI had the same thing too - a bad hdmi to micro hdmi converer, than a bad serial cable, it was like all my bad luck was saved up for this project19:25
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ahollerscreen -x helps too19:35
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GPSFanHoloPed2, dous your problem with the GPS & MinnowMax occur with the mac booted to your app or with the Max just sitting at the UEFI Shell prompt?20:12
GPSFans/mac/Max20:12
HoloPed2GPSFan, it happens even with the max just in shell20:12
GPSFanHoloPed2, ok, how about with the usb drive plugged in or not?20:14
HoloPed2both20:14
HoloPed2happens also with nothing plugged in20:14
GPSFanHoloPed2, ok, how far away does the GPS start working?20:14
HoloPed2I didn't ahve a chance yet to disable PCI and SATA20:14
GPSFanabout...20:15
HoloPed2well,20:15
HoloPed2the gps is on the top of the quad20:16
HoloPed2the max is mounted on the bottom20:16
HoloPed2its not mounted, but just sitting besides it,  than it works20:16
GPSFanHoloPed2, yeah, I know, I'm trying to get a feel for how "strong" the interference is from the Max.20:16
HoloPed2stops working about 10cm from the antenna20:16
HoloPed2maybe a bit more20:16
GPSFanHoloPed2, and the normal mounting distance is?20:17
HoloPed2its normally about 8cm away20:17
HoloPed2wait20:17
HoloPed2my guys says that it also spotty when the max is on the floor,20:17
HoloPed2which places it about 20cm away20:18
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GPSFanHoloPed2, have you used the ublox u-center app IIRC there is a jammint/interference in one of the config screens, what does it say?20:21
GPSFans/jammint/jamming20:21
HoloPed2we can use the app20:22
HoloPed2the flight controller is talking directly to the ublox20:23
HoloPed2we dont have that kind of access20:23
HoloPed2I would need some breakout board,20:23
HoloPed2or do some hacking20:23
GPSFanHoloPed2, when you do, do all the sats go away at once or do you lose the weak ones first?20:23
HoloPed2all I know is if there is a lock or not20:24
HoloPed2I dont know how many sats20:24
GPSFanHoloPed2, you might try one of the neo-6m boards on e-bay, they are real cheap and while they don't have the same timepulse output range as the 6T the basic rf part is about the same.20:25
HoloPed2ok20:25
GPSFanthat way you could use the 6M board/antenna as an interference sniffer without having to disturb your copter app20:26
GPSFanHoloPed2, I'd try some stuff here, but I'm under a metal roof and can't see any sat's inside. It's winter here and I'm not too eager to move all my stuff outside ;>))20:28
HoloPed2tell me about it20:29
HoloPed2we've been running in and out all day20:29
HoloPed2and its below freezing20:34
* warthog9 is back from lunch20:47
* warthog9 debates what needs doing20:47
HoloPed2what are the options21:06
GPSFanHoloPed2, I'm going to drag my max and a tablet with GPS outside in a few min, to see if I can see the effect. Either way you may need some shielding between the max & GPS.21:08
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GPSFanHoloPed2, test results: I took my max outside and set my tablet right on top of it, let the tablet get a GPS fix. Running GPSStatus app watched the signal strengths. Then I powered up the max. I did not have a usb drive, hdmi, or kbd/mouse plugged in. I saw no difference in signal strengths with the max powered.22:04
GPSFanThe tablet doesn't have the greatest GPS chipset, but it had about 8 sats locked on and didn't lose any with the max powered.22:06
warthog9heads up I re-arranged the menu on minnowboard.org - if you can glance at it and tell me if it's more logical now that would be great22:17
ranixI dig it22:20
warthog9ranix: better / worse?22:24
ranixslightly better22:24
ranixthe real info is on http://www.elinux.org/Minnowboard:MinnowMax anyway22:25
warthog9ranix: yup22:26
warthog9and it's easier to maintain there anyway22:26
warthog9wordpress is so bad22:27
ranixyep22:27
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nicksydneyi've been meaning to check you guys...when i run minnowmax (with ubuntu) and doing just normal stuff like I2C comm and such the board itself becomes hot...not very hot..but hot...is that normal ?22:37
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warthog9nicksydney: I've heard a lot of reports about that on Ubuntu, I SUSPECT it's not doing the power management right23:11
warthog9but I haven't dug into it23:11
warthog9nicksydney: it shouldn't be an issue23:11
warthog9unless you get it hot and lick the heatsync23:11
* warthog9 doesn't recommend that BTW23:11
nicksydneywarthog9: the report about ubuntu are you aware of it's version or kernel ?23:12
warthog9nicksydney: I haven't been tracking it super close, but I want to say 14.0423:12
nicksydneywarthog9: i love my food and would like to safe my tongue to eat good food :)23:12
warthog9I don't think anyone has really narrowed it down to a kernel23:12
nicksydneywarthog9: ok fair enough...will try on Android and see if i'm getting the same kind of heat23:12
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warthog9I.E. if there's one that doesn't do that23:12
warthog9nicksydney: things seem reasonably ok on Fedora23:13
warthog9and I tend to run Fedora23:13
warthog9so I haven't seen it23:13
nicksydneyso your suspicious about the power management side of things...it's more on the userspace ?23:13
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captain1181What daughter cards are available for the minnowboard max?23:15
warthog9nicksydney: power management is a kernel thing23:25
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nicksydneywarthog9: ok thanks23:27
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warthog9captain1181: take a look at technodisti.com23:35
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WormManyea, the syntax is slightly different for ssh... it's just user@host:path23:53
WormManoops23:53
warthog9WormMan: now we all know your secret sshing!23:54
warthog9;-)23:54
WormManno, I'm just really bad at irc windows :)23:54
warthog9WormMan: ehhh it happens, I've been on IRC for more than half my life at this point, and I botch it on occasion23:55
warthog9the `ls` in a chat window is always "fun"23:55
warthog9wheee distrctions while live editing the minnowboard website ;-)23:58

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