Monday, 2015-01-12

nicksydneywarthog9: put the order through ebay for the standoff ...once i got it will build a wooden or plastic base and try it out :)00:48
warthog9:-)00:57
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ka6soxI picked up some nice #6 rubber feet for mine…they keep it off the table and make it not slide around.02:57
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tbrLRF, right, I have a pack of those. Still a plastic backplate would be nice.08:59
av500and a case?09:01
av500a real case?09:01
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ahollera CamelCase10:14
ahollerget some lego10:15
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Intel_newbhi, is there anyone here experienced with the Minnowboard hardware design?18:53
prpplagueIntel_newb: there are several here18:54
prpplagueIntel_newb: ask away, if someone is available, knows the answer, they will respond18:54
Intel_newbIm trying to find out whats the 2K eeprom used for?18:54
Intel_newbtheres a 2K I2C eeprom on the DDR page - any idea whats in it?18:54
prpplagueIntel_newb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect18:55
prpplagueIntel_newb: the eeprom is used for SPD, which is typically used to store information about the type, size, and timings for the memory.18:55
Intel_newbI believe its U33 on sheet 12, shcem rev A118:56
prpplagueIntel_newb: pretty much all sodimm/dimm memory modules use similar methods18:56
Intel_newbbut if you have the ram soldered down, why do you need it?18:56
prpplagueIntel_newb: because you don't want to have firmware that is hardcoded for that specific value18:57
prpplagueIntel_newb: it becomes a maintenance issue18:57
prpplagueIntel_newb: http://www.4allmemory.com/content/editor/images/144sodimm.jpg18:57
prpplagueIntel_newb: there is a nice picture of a sodimm memory module where you can see it too has a eeprom18:57
Intel_newbwouldnt you revise firmware if you have a new board spin?18:57
prpplagueright there in the middle18:57
Intel_newbthe minnow doesnt use DIMM - the DDR is soldered to the board18:58
prpplagueIntel_newb: assuming you did that, you would have to support two versions of the firmware18:58
prpplagueIntel_newb: one for the older model with different memory and one for the newer18:58
Intel_newbok18:59
prpplagueIntel_newb: what happens if someone loads the new firmware on an older board, and viseversa18:59
Intel_newbis there a standard format for the information sotred on the eeprom? any documentation on that?18:59
prpplagueIntel_newb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect18:59
prpplagueIntel_newb: it's refered to as SPD18:59
Intel_newbi see18:59
Intel_newbso if I populate the second DDR channel  with the same type of DDR, would I need another eeprom for the 2nd channel?19:00
Intel_newbIm guessing I would19:02
prpplagueyes, indeed you would19:02
prpplagueif you were treating it as two separate channels19:02
Intel_newbwhere do I get a BSP for a custom design? is there a tool that automates the process?19:03
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prpplagueIntel_newb: are you asking about the hardware design files, or some aspects of software?19:03
Intel_newbwell Im planning to build a baytrail board with no overhead - just DDR and GPIOs for FPGA interface19:04
Intel_newband ehternet on PCIe19:04
Intel_newbthinking of trimming down the Minnowboard19:05
prpplagueIntel_newb: ahh19:05
Intel_newbbut how do I generate the BSP for that?19:05
prpplagueIntel_newb: then what i suggest is googling around for some schematics for a standard sodim. there are a number of them out there on the net19:05
prpplagueIntel_newb: to make sure we are talking about the same thing, are you asking for hardware or software bsp?19:05
Intel_newbnot sure - never worked on intel before19:06
Intel_newbthe terminalogoies are quite different from arm based SOCs19:07
Intel_newbbut I need something to base the BIOS/uboot image out of19:07
warthog9Intel_newb: have you looked at coreboot with MAX support?19:08
prpplagueIntel_newb: the bios firmware is supported with both UEFI and coreboot19:08
warthog9that uses the FSP + coreboot to generate you a firmware19:08
prpplagueIntel_newb: let me get you the URL for the UEFI19:08
prpplaguewarthog9: you have the link for coreboot handy?19:08
seaLneIntel_newb: just to check you are aware of the Xilinx Zynq which is arm+fpga and that it isn't suitable for what you want with something like the zedboard?19:08
Intel_newbdo not want EFI19:08
warthog9Intel_newb: coreboot uses different payloads, UEFI is one, legacy bios, uboot, etc are others19:09
Intel_newbactually my embedded design experience is based on the Zynq - atom is quite different19:09
seaLneok, just thought i'd check incase you were trying to reinvent it :-)19:10
Intel_newbso - how do I get the software BSP of the hardware I just created?19:11
warthog9the FSP is SoC specific, not board19:11
Intel_newbcan I run baremetal executives from coreboot?19:12
prpplagueIntel_newb: yes you can if you want, but there is very little reason to do so19:13
Intel_newbprpplague: Im sure ur right :)19:13
Intel_newbbut its a learning process for me19:14
prpplaguepoking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick is a learning process as well, hehe19:14
warthog9Intel_newb: what OS are you ultimately going to want to run?19:15
warthog9Intel_newb: that tends to define what firmware you care about19:15
prpplagueIntel_newb: typically most people will select a firmware, such as coreboot or uefi, then select an OS to run19:15
Intel_newba Executable for some DSP routines - channeling data betweet FPGA and Ethernet19:17
Intel_newbfor an instrumentation application19:17
warthog9Intel_newb: well you are still going to need an OS to bring up an IP stack19:18
warthog9and an ethernet driver19:18
Intel_newbyes, you are correct19:18
warthog9unless you intend to write both yourself (or in the ip case use something minimal like lwip)19:18
Intel_newblooking into some real-time kernels, not sure what to pick19:18
Intel_newbI could use some kind of TCP offloading engine19:19
Intel_newbnot sure19:19
warthog9Intel_newb: linux-rt works fairly well on the MAX19:19
Intel_newbthe arduino wiztek shields would work fine for my application :)19:19
Intel_newbbut not PCIe though19:20
Intel_newblooking into many options I guess19:20
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Intel_newbhey thanks for the leads - you guys are awesome!19:23
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*** warthog9 changes topic to "MinnowBoard - Open Source Hardware w/ Intel Atom! http://www.minnowboard.org | wiki http://www.elinux.org/MinnowBoard | If you don't get a response, take your question to the mailing list | MinnowBoard MAX Dual core, showing stock at Mouser Jan 12, 2015 | Welcome prpplague to the Intel MinnowBoard team!"20:58
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nicksydneywas wondering with the number of BayTrail devices available in the market (most of them are running Windows 8) is it possible to install Linux on it or is the BIOS 'locked' to only allow Windows run on it ?21:40
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tripz0prpplague: is at Intel now?22:22
warthog9nicksydney: on the MAX or in general?22:22
warthog9tripz0: yup22:22
prpplaguetripz0: i have been assimilated22:22
tripz0excellent22:23
nicksydneywarthog9: in general22:23
warthog9tripz0: I thought so22:23
tripz0welcome to the collective22:23
warthog9nicksydney: generally you should be able to run Linux on any Baytrail system22:23
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nicksydneywarthog9: generally that's correct as that can be done with MinnowMax ..what I was wondering since there are so many baytrail based tablet devices in the market  that runs Windows 8 .. was thinking if Linux can be installed in it as with normal PC we can boot using USB but with tablets this is not possible.....so what is the alternative to do this22:25
tripz0bootloader might be locked22:27
warthog9yeah tablets get iffy because of things like locked boot loaders and potentially secure boot stuff22:27
nicksydneyi know in ARM based tablets you can unlock boot loaders..does it work the same on baytrail too or it's very different ?22:29
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warthog9nicksydney: depends on the tablet, the firmware, etc22:30
nicksydney*specifically in Android based ARM based tablet I meant22:30
nicksydneyi understand the secure boot stuff that's part of BIOS setting right ?22:31
warthog9yup22:31
nicksydneyi know that in normal x86 platform like minnowmax you can hit F2 to go to BIOS ..can this key function be disabled as not to allow user to access BIOS ?22:32
warthog9yes22:33
warthog9it could be22:33
nicksydneyjust to clear my understanding in ARM world this is what normally the boot works .... ROM code (run by processor) --> BootLoader1 --> BootLoader(x) if exist --> u-boot --> kernel --> userspace .... does BootLoader(x) in x86 correponds to the firmware or it's different ?22:36
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edo_ahoy. Just noticed that minnow board max is in stock. in terms of getting started quickly, what might I be missing?22:46
edo_minnowmax board, 5V 3A adapter, micro HDMI cable, USB 3 cable (for external hdd)22:46
edo_and a wifi/USB dongle22:48
nicksydneyedo_: get a serial cable if you can22:49
prpplagueedo_: serial cable i.e. a usb->uart adapter22:49
warthog9lure would be the only other thing that might be interesting22:49
warthog9(jetsam or flotsam are popular high speed ones, calamari is a good testing / experimenting board for the low speed)22:50
nicksydneyedo_: something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-To-RS232-TTL-UART-PL2303HX-Auto-Converter-USB-to-COM-Cable-Adapter-Module-/310676792112?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4855c7a33022:50
prpplaguenicksydney: firmware such as coreboot or uefi would corespond to Bootloader122:50
warthog9nicksydney: I don't see voltage on that22:51
nicksydneywarthog9: it says  Red cable -------VCC22:51
warthog9http://elinux.org/Minnowboard:MinnowMax#6-Wire_Serial_Console22:52
prpplaguenicksydney: right, what he means, is it 3.3V levels or 5V levels22:52
warthog9I've seen some 5v vcc / 3.3v logic ones22:53
nicksydneyprpplague: hahah...ok understood..yeah it's not written....i'm using the same one though...followed the 4-Wire Serial Console section on that wiki22:53
* warthog9 tends to be paranoid on those cables22:53
nicksydneyprpplague: so the coreboot or UEFI is that close or open source ?22:53
warthog9both are mostly open22:54
prpplaguenicksydney: both are open source22:54
prpplaguenicksydney: with uefi having a binary blob needed22:54
warthog9they both have binary blobs for Intel22:54
prpplaguenicksydney: as warthog9 noted, but require blobs, but the work on coreboot is generally more open22:54
nicksydneyok cool..thanks...will do more reading on coreboot and UEFI22:55
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edo_nicksydney/prpplague: thanks for the feedback. I'll grab one of them too!23:23
ahollernsa-blobs?23:33
prpplagueaholler: martian23:35
ahollerah, good, they never did something bad23:36
prpplaguemost ARM SoC's include a binary blob as part of their ROM23:36
prpplaguethat ROM code is rarely released to the public23:36
prpplaguethe difference is that the similar ROM code for most Intel Architecture devices is included as part of the compile for the firmware23:37
ahollerjust that it doesn't have any control after it did it work23:37
prpplagueso in a way, it is no real different than that of other SoC's, it's just that you are more aware that the binary blob exists23:37
ahollerin the case of bios/uefi it's very different23:37
ahollersome of that stuff still is called after the os got control23:38
prpplagueaholler: no for FSP23:38
prpplagueaholler: not for FSP23:38
prpplagueaholler: i'd have to double check, but once FSP binary has done it's job it's not longer used23:38
prpplagueaholler: the rest of the OS accessable stuff is done in the open23:39
prpplagueaholler: i'll make a note to confirm that23:39
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