Monday, 2015-03-16

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Aman_singhprpplague: you there ?06:22
Aman_singhneed to prepare a proposal for GSoC , can I get a template ?06:23
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warthog9Aman_singh: I'll get a template up in the morning07:30
warthog9Aman_singh: come to think of it I haven't seen an application template in melange, let me go check for one07:31
tbrapplications open later today IIRC07:32
warthog9tbr: today being Monday - yes07:32
warthog9ahhh that's what's missing from this bar *goes to add back in his UTC clock*07:32
tbryes, that was in referce to UTC07:32
tbrall my machines run UTC, no need for additonal clocks :)07:33
warthog9tbr: well they do and they don't ;-)07:34
warthog9but it's helpful to have a clock reading both local time and the absolute utc07:34
warthog9so I don't have to do the math in my head07:34
warthog9Aman_singh: and I'm just putting the template up now since i found the right bit in melange :-)07:36
warthog9and my old template from years past07:36
Aman_singhwaethog9: okay :)07:36
Aman_singhthanks and even I had prepared something myself07:37
warthog9the template is pretty straight forward07:37
aholler_daze -u helps with the math07:38
warthog9Aman_singh: and it's saved07:38
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warthog9Aman_singh: it'll be there when you go to apply once those open07:38
warthog9Aman_singh: thanks for the reminder that I needed to do that :-)07:40
warthog9and with that I'm going to go sleep since I have to head into the office tomorrow to deal with some stuff07:41
Aman_singhwarthog9: btw still 12 hours remaining for the submissions to begin :)07:41
warthog9Aman_singh: 8 of those I'll be asleep ;-)07:42
Aman_singhwarthog9: gud night :)  will you like to give reviews about the plan which I have prepared ?07:44
warthog9Aman_singh: you can edit the proposal once it's been submitted07:45
warthog9and I've be happy to offer feedback if you want (I don't remember if we can see them till apps close or not so you may want to make a copy in something like google docs so you can share it easily)07:45
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Aman_singhwarthog9: just a minute , It is not prepared completly but sufficient to convey my approach07:50
koenwarthog9: on hikey I can do './Image' to load if as UEFI app, on minnow I have to so 'mv bzImage bzImage.efi' before I can load it07:51
koenwarthog9: room for improvement there :)07:51
warthog9koen: are you trying to claim the MAX isn't perfect?!07:53
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warthog9Aman_singh: no worries, koen is a friend if mine and is trolling me :-P07:54
warthog9I wonder if ./ to force execution is expected in the UEFI 2.0 shell spec07:54
warthog9Aman_singh: I'll take a look in the morning when I have more than 2 brain cells to rub together :-)07:55
Aman_singhwarthog9: okay :)07:55
ahollershould be expected in every shell07:56
warthog9aholler: shell didn't have a formal spec till 2.0 sadly, so nothing is guaranteed to be "standard" till that07:59
ahollerit's a shell, isn't it?08:00
warthog9this is why the UEFI shell is weirdly windows + unix08:00
warthog9aholler: UEFI shell08:00
ahollerstill a shell08:00
warthog9there's a lot of windows-isms in the shell though08:00
ahollerthen they should not have named it a shell ;)08:01
warthog9you use \ vs / but you use ls to list the directory08:01
koenwarthog9: leaving off './' also works08:01
koensince $PATH includes $PWD08:01
koenjust like DOS08:01
warthog9does the $PATH for our shell not include PWD? (I'd imagine it does)08:01
koenbut the minnow version insists on needing the '.efi' suffix08:02
warthog9koen: what firmware you on on the MAX?08:02
warthog9the UEFI shell got upgraded to 2.0 somewhere around 0.76 I think08:02
koenthe one from around ELC dusseldorf08:02
koenI'll reflash and check later this week08:03
warthog9koen: when 0.78 drops you should upgrade08:03
warthog9koen: new memory timings in 0.78, modest performance boost for free ;-)08:03
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tbrwarthog9: make sure to give that release a bit more publicity on all channels. Best point to #exactsteps ;-)08:06
warthog9tbr: I will08:06
warthog9and I'll have my #exactsteps08:06
warthog9as opposed to the official #exactsteps08:07
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tbrwarthog9: btw, can I see the template you used somewhere? I need some inspiration for the Xiph template...08:12
warthog9second, let me go fish it out of melange08:12
warthog9tbr: in /msg08:14
warthog9tbr: mind you that app template assumes the irc interview we do08:14
warthog9so it might not be as comprehensive as it could be08:14
warthog9on the flip side that basic template has served me for 9 years?08:15
ahollerpath including pwd guarantees fun08:15
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sjoerdtbr: I can't save the time before reboot as this is part of a board test farm so nothing is persistant08:27
sjoerdAnyway, just adding a kernel argument so fsck isn't run on boot works for most of our images so that's fine08:28
tbrsjoerd: yes, that wasn't about you, it was general comment about time problems on hardware without battery backed RTC08:28
sjoerdI was just surprised of the difference between two boards with different firmware08:28
sjoerdtbr: It's annoying with e2fsck being anal about the clock time08:28
tbrI'd personally consider switchint to a fs that doesn't need a fsck before mounting08:30
tbrbtrfs seems to be getting there08:30
sjoerdWell fscking is a bit useless for my use-case anyway08:30
sjoerdso skipping it entirely is fine08:30
ahollerturning it of is the same as what btrfs does08:30
tbrwhile that's what it does, btrfs is supposedly safer in this context08:31
ahollerfixing the rtc does make more sense08:31
sjoerdaholler: Yeah ordering some battery holders and soldering them on is on my todo list08:32
ahollerjust don't buy a board without rtc08:32
sjoerdhowever we're using minnowboards for some clients of hours and i don't really want to go and tell them to solder things onto the boards we suggested them to buy ;)08:32
sjoerdaholler: that will stop me from buy esentially any arm development board ;)08:32
sjoerdDonkeyHotei: people repeating ntp all the time are misunderstanding the issue08:33
ahollerno, some of actually have learned about the problems08:33
sjoerdDonkeyHotei:  This happens very early in boot so the netwrok isn't even up at that point, hence ntp is being useless08:33
DonkeyHoteiit's not as early if you have a proper initramfs08:34
aholleryou just don't want to rely on the network to get a real date/time08:34
sjoerdAnd that's the second part08:34
tbrit's sufficiently addressed for most use cases by combining NTP and battery backed RTC, though08:36
ahollerbuild yourself an usb-rtc ;)08:37
sjoerdtbr: battery backed rtc is enough for this particular case08:38
sjoerdall e2fsck cares about is time moving forward08:38
sjoerdnot correct time08:38
sjoerdActually i *think* systemd does the right thing already by restoring saved time in soame cases08:39
* tbr ponders if any UEFI version does the old BIOS thing from the 90's "Uh, oh! It looks like the RTC reset! Please press $key and set the correct time!"08:39
sjoerdwouldn't be surprised08:39
aholleryou might call ntp before fsck. needs fiddling but helps, at least if you aren't using systemd ;)08:40
sjoerdwell you can also configure e2fsck to not go cry-baby if the time is off08:40
sjoerdso many options08:40
aholleralso it's a pain to setup networking while having a read-only fs08:41
sjoerdwell initramfs makes this easier ofcourse08:41
sjoerdStill it's a pretty crazy amount of extra stuff to do, to work around something08:41
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aholleryep, that's why hw-people don't use their own hw ;)08:46
ahollerotherwise they wouldn't build a system without rtc ;)08:47
sjoerdwithout a battery backed one at least :)08:49
sjoerdoddly i never had big issues with systems resetting the rtc to the '7008:50
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AshutoshDas_prpplague: Hey16:17
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: greetings16:17
prpplagueanyone here submitting a proposal for the witch-on-board or the wiring/process projects?16:20
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: you still planning to submit for wiring/process project?16:20
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AshutoshDas_prpplague: I was out of town, so was not able to do much in past week. I do have written a wiki page about the initial development of the project, Extend Wiring/Process libraries to MinnowBoard Max.16:21
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: dandy16:21
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: the submission window just opened today16:21
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: so you have until the 27th to submit something16:21
AshutoshDas_prpplague: Is there any sort template for the proposal?16:23
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: no i dont believe there is one, you need to put something together yourself16:23
AshutoshDas_prpplague: Okay then.16:24
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AshutoshDas_prpplague: I have few queries about the upload method. It will be serial communication with max, right?  Dont we have to configure that in MAX?16:27
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prpplagueAshutoshDas_: no, for this round of development the IDE will run directly on the minnowboard max16:27
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: no need to upload16:27
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: but if you do want to run the IDE on a different host, you can use ssh to transfer the files over network16:28
AshutoshDas_prpplague: It will ease the task. In idea page a goal "Improve "program" upload methods" is mentioned.16:30
AshutoshDas_prpplague: So what exactly we have to do?16:30
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: find a better and more secure way of transfering the files and executing them remotely16:31
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AshutoshDas_prpplague: So the 1st we have to make the IDE run directly on max.16:40
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: yea that wont be a big deal16:41
prpplagueAshutoshDas_: as the ide is already written such to run on x8616:41
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AshutoshDas__prpplague: Sorry getting connectivity issues.16:50
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programmerqI just used my minnowmax connected over TTL serial to a mini serial modem to send a real fax to a really out-of-touch-with-the-times company. yay!18:07
programmerqyeah, never thought I'd be putting sensitive data through my breadboard18:10
programmerqI think I *found* this breadboard. It was abandoned in a file cabinet at my office and we were cleaning out the old cupboards. nobody current owned it, and it would have been thrown away.18:11
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calculusprpplague: I think warthog9 mentioned getting some gsoc templates up18:20
warthog9when you go to apply there should be a pre-filled template in place18:26
warthog9have apps opened up yet?18:26
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ka6sox+2 minutes19:02
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ka6soxwhat is the definition of an "in production lure"?20:10
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ka6soxso if I have a bare board for a lure that you can purchase lets say from oshpark…would that be :"buildable or "ready to build"?20:30
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warthog9prpplague: --^ thoughts on ka6sox's question21:07
prpplagueka6sox: "ready to assemble" ?21:08
* prpplague is suffering from information overload atm21:08
ka6soxprpplague, that was me last week21:08
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