Wednesday, 2017-05-17

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msvb-labHow do I get output (like early UEFI screen) on UART1 or UART2?17:11
msvb-labUART0 prints the UEFI screen no problem, but I'm trying to use the LSE on a Turbot.17:12
msvb-labI thought selecting 'SuperIO UART' from UEFI/Device/Setup/Southbridge/Miscellaneous would print to UART1, but it's not working.17:13
BitweasilYou want to use the LSE HSUARTs for console?17:14
BitweasilI don't think there's an easy way to do that, sadly.17:14
BitweasilThose are "weird" devices to work with compared to the 0x3f8 serial port.17:14
msvb-labBitweasil: Yes, I wanted to use the LSE UART1 or UART2 for console.17:15
msvb-labIf it's not easy, then I'll give up. According to the Minnowboard wiki, UART0 appears as /dev/ttyUSB0, UART1 as /dev/ttyUSB4, and UART2 as /dev/ttyUSB5.17:16
msvb-lab...but I think that is on the Minnowboard host OS itself after booting has completed.17:16
BitweasilCorrect.17:17
BitweasilAre you up for EFI hacking?17:17
msvb-labHmm.17:17
msvb-labWithout EFI hacking, an option is to run getty(1) on any of those ports for a login after boot.17:18
msvb-labBut it would be a bonus to have an early console, even at UEFI.17:18
BitweasilIf you want to use it in Linux for the console, that should be straightforward.17:18
BitweasilIf you want to use it for early boot messages, that's a lot more complex, and I'm not sure how you'd go about doing it exactly.17:19
msvb-labBitweasil: You think it would be an easy $ sed -e 's;UART0;UART1;g' type of modification to the EFI firmware sources?17:19
BitweasilNo.17:19
BitweasilOne is a legacy serial port on IO port 3f8.  The high speed UARTs are PCI or ACPI devices with memory mapped IO regions and a somewhat different interface.17:19
msvb-lab...because there are PCI device IDs or something like that?17:19
BitweasilI mean, they're both UARTs, but that's about where the similarities end.17:20
BitweasilThe console port is an old, one byte at a time, IO port UART.17:20
msvb-labOkay, so it's a half day's work to hack the EFI probably. No interest, and I'll try just getting my hacked OS to print to ttyUSB4.17:21
msvb-labThat's probably just a matter of a single line grub (kernel) modification.17:21
BitweasilThe HSUARTs are much more advanced, have a lot more configuration, are designed for DMA, etc.  You can get them into a "bang bytes into the register" configuration, but they have FIFOs, and finding them requires either parsing the ACPI data (which the EFI should have somewhere, I'd hope), or moving them into PCI space, which you can do with a config in the EFI.17:21
BitweasilYeah.  You might not be able to get earlyprintk working with them, though.17:21
BitweasilOh, and if you don't have CTS/RTS wired up, make sure you turn off flow control in the EFI settings.17:21
msvb-labBitweasil: I have only wired TX/RX and ground.17:22
BitweasilHSUART#0 has flow control enabled, and it's not kidding about it - it won't transmit without the lines configured.17:22
Bitweasilk, then turn off flow control.17:22
BitweasilIt can transmit up to 3M baud, but you'll have issues with a lot of serial adapters at that rate.17:22
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BitweasilGet it working at 115200 and then ramp up.17:22
msvb-labBitweasil: Is flow control on or off by default on cu(1) screen(1) and similar applications?17:22
BitweasilNot sure.  I don't really use those - I write my own interface code.17:23
BitweasilBut if you don't have CTS/RTS connected, turn off flow control in the EFI settings.17:23
BitweasilI've got a nasty bit of C++ to configure my serial receivers, but I'm banging on the HSUARTs from weird corners of ring 0.17:24
msvb-labI don't even see an option for hardware flow control in the cu(1) manpage.17:24
BitweasilIt'll probably be in stty17:24
msvb-labBitweasil: You're saying 'turn off flow control' because ...?17:25
BitweasilBecause you said you don't have the lines hooked up.17:25
msvb-labNothing gets printed if it's set wrong, or garbage gets printed if its set wrong?17:25
BitweasilNothing gets printed.17:26
BitweasilHSUART#0 has CTS/RTS brought out.  If you don't have them hooked up, but have flow control turned on, it won't transmit.17:26
BitweasilI think you can reconfigure it to disable that, but if you're looking for early console stuff, that may not happen.17:26
msvb-labHmm, okay. Then I'll work on setting it to off17:27
BitweasilI think it's in the SPSS config section.17:27
BitweasilI just changed the settings in the default EFI builds, but I'm flashing new images regularly.17:27
Bitweasil(actually, I have it turned on for HSUART0, because I have all that stuff hooked up)17:27
msvb-labSo just for completeness, with flow control on or off there's no text in my screen(1) window for UART1 whereas there was before when connecting to UART0.17:29
msvb-labBitweasil: You are referring to the first UART on LSE as HSUART0?17:30
msvb-labI've only seen it referred to as UART1, but whatever.17:30
msvb-labBitweasil: Any idea what that means in UEFI, the option to select between 'Internal UART' and 'SuperIO UART'?17:31
msvb-labI've tried both options, and there's definitely no difference during UEFI. I haven't tried booting an OS yet though.17:31
BitweasilUh, yeah.  I guess UART1/UART2 are what the datasheet calls them.17:32
BitweasilI've just got them called 0 and 1 in my code.17:32
Bitweasilwell, HSUART0/HSUART1.17:33
BitweasilI don't know what Internal vs SuperIO UART settings are.17:33
BitweasilI assume it's related to the SoC UART vs the expansion one, for legacy boards with a separate SuperIO section.17:34
BitweasilWhat's your end goal here?  Higher speed serial consoles?17:34
msvb-labBitweasil: My end goal is providing students with serial access.17:35
msvb-labDozens of students show up to a workshop, but I don't want to provide TTL cables.17:35
msvb-labAnd I already have dozens of micro USB cables, so I'm planning on working in a USB to UART bridge interface on a lure.17:36
msvb-labAn LSE lure, obviously.17:36
BitweasilAh, got it.17:36
BitweasilCan you just hang a FTDI chip on the lure with an external 6 pin connector and loop around to the console interface?17:36
Bitweasilif they need EFI access, that's going to be easiest.17:37
msvb-labSo the lame solution is to either grub(1) or getty(1) it, but I was hoping for a full redirection of UART flow from UART0 to UART1 configured in UEFI. That's not possible it seems.17:37
BitweasilIf it is possible, it's distinctly non-trivial.17:37
msvb-labI've thought of spaghetti wiring it too, like you mention. Not just for serial but for PoE.17:37
BitweasilSince anything touching the hardware directly will have to be informed about the desired changes.17:37
msvb-labThose are even lamer than no UEFI screen and settling for a partial boot and then login prompt though.17:38
BitweasilI guess it depends on if you want them to have access to the UEFI interfaces or just the OS.17:38
BitweasilIf it's just the OS, it shouldn't be hard.17:38
BitweasilSince Linux recognizes the HSUARTs.17:38
Bitweasil(even as ACPI devices).17:38
msvb-labThe students don't need UEFI access, and I haven't even really decided if it's good to give them UEFI access in any case. What do you think?17:39
BitweasilUnless you like un-fucking boards, not giving them EFI access is a good idea. :)17:39
BitweasilThough why serial, as opposed to just SSH access?17:39
BitweasilWhat are you doing that needs individual boards?  GPIO interface stuff?17:39
Bitweasilbrb17:39
msvb-labThe last 20 or so workshops more than half have had network problems (hotel, interference, no compliance, misunderstanding, too short cables, equipment failure, airline overbaggage...)17:40
msvb-labSo I'm trying to avoid depending on a network. Do you know how much 1/2 Km of copper cable weighs in a suitcase along with a 48 port switch for 32 Minnowboards?17:41
msvb-labThe end goal is to have both as options, serial and IP access.17:41
msvb-labBitweasil: You're right that blocking their UEFI access is a good idea, actually.17:41
msvb-labSo my so called 'problem' of only getting boot or login I/O is a blessing in disguise?17:42
msvb-labBitweasil: The character of the workshop teaches hands on hardware training along with looking at the components and accessing sensors and actuators on lures.17:43
msvb-labThe reason of why we need a board per student is a bit too deep to cover on IRC.17:43
msvb-labSeems to me that just appending 'console=ttyUSB4,115200' to grub.conf's kernel line will work fine here.17:45
msvb-labHaven17:45
msvb-labHaven't tested yet though. I'll cross my fingers and soon find out...17:45
msvb-labconsole=ttyUSB4,115200n817:47
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BitweasilGuess not? :)17:54
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Bitweasilmsvb-lab, having a requirement of sensors and stuff makes sense for why you'd need that.  "Bring your own AP" and use 5GHz isn't an option?  Having the devices with a DHCP server running on eth0 and letting students SSH in directly seems reasonable as well - copying files around over serial is a pain.18:13
BitweasilBut if you're giving students access to the boards, I'd password protect the EFI if that's an option. :)18:13
BitweasilAnd grub.18:14
BitweasilOr reflash the device after each class.18:14
BitweasilIf you lock down EFI and grub, you eliminate a lot of the ways someone can mess with it, especially if it's in a case so they can't just pull the microSD.18:14
msvb-labBitweasil: First choice is always access over IP, and we'll use USB to UART during trainwrecks (which happen often enough.)18:14
BitweasilOk.18:15
BitweasilDoes that happen often enough to justify building that into the lure, or could you just carry a few TTL USB cables for the console and use that as needed?18:15
msvb-labBitweasil: There's even the possibility of creating a IP over USB/UART network, like what Beaglebone does with Debian. But I haven't researched that enough. Have you seen that? It's pretty cool.18:15
BitweasilUh, no, can't say I've looked into that at all.18:16
msvb-labIP over USB/UART basically implies you connect USB to whatever device, and that device runs all IP client/server logic over the USB connection and the laptop/computer forwards packets to the default router. Cool.18:16
msvb-labIt saves me a back doctor visit by not bringing CAT5 and a Cisco swithch.18:16
msvb-labBitweasil: That's the beauty of my 'problem' that no password protection is needed if I just stick to UART1 or UART2 (which have no UEFI access it seems.)18:17
msvb-labA very determined (to brick boards) student could inject commands in grub, but I'm not so worried about that.18:18
BitweasilTrue.18:18
BitweasilAlso, you can run the HSUARTs at 1M baud or so and get a good bit improved console response.18:19
Bitweasil115200 is slow. :)18:19
msvb-labBitweasil: I've thought of buying 32 TTL cables to add to the setup, which is quite a disdvantage. The thing is, we already must have micro USB for other boards (NXP/Nordic...) so they're already in inventory.18:19
msvb-labExtra TTL cables would never be used except for trainwreck scenarios.18:19
BitweasilSo you don't need 32.  You need a few, tops.18:20
msvb-labNot if the half day involves access to Minnowboards and there's no IP at all.18:20
BitweasilAh.18:20
msvb-lab60+ students share 2 to a device.18:20
BitweasilI don't understand why setting up your own standalone IP network is that much of a problem.18:21
msvb-labThe numbers change a lot, I'm just giving a very general idea of the training.18:21
BitweasilYou can't bring a good multi-radio access point?18:21
msvb-labRouter goes out, hotel forbids our network, DHCP lease problems, cable lengths.18:22
msvb-labSometimes the person bringing the switch (for 32 devices) forgets? Or brings it but not a power cable.18:22
msvb-labI've seen quite a few things18:22
msvb-labBitweasil: You keep talking about an access point. Yes, we have several but Minnows only do 802.3.18:22
BitweasilFair enough.18:23
BitweasilUSB wireless dongles? :)18:23
msvb-lab...unless you mean putting a tranceiver lure on the boards. That's possible.18:23
msvb-labOr dongles. I'd rather avoid the cost though.18:23
BitweasilI don't know how you'd do a wireless interface on the lures.18:23
msvb-labThe beauty of micro USB is that there's nothing to buy and no extra weight.18:24
msvb-labWhile the beauty of serial is that it works always.18:24
BitweasilThere's no normal interfaces to such a thing on the low speed interface, unless you're doing something like a serial ESP8266 or something.18:24
msvb-labLures would have to be HSE to accept 802.11 interfaces.18:24
BitweasilRight.18:24
BitweasilAnd that's more expensive to design for.18:24
msvb-labHowever, there might be devices that go over SPI. I'm just not that interested in yet more IP. Often when we must go serial, it's because a hotel router breaks.18:26
msvb-labHSE is definitely more clean and high performance for 802.11, and designs already exist for mini PCIe breakout. LSE is possible, but you'd need a good reason.18:26
BitweasilAnd probably custom drivers.18:27
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msvb-labMy OS is nasty, and printing 'error: no suitable video mode found.' Booting in blind mode.18:59
BitweasilWhat are you running on it?19:00
msvb-labBitweasil: Wind River Pulsar8.19:13
msvb-labSeems it's grub (2?) but I'm not completely sure. There are wierd boot directories resembling Syslinux around...19:13
msvb-labOkay, so it seems 'console=ttyUSB*' is wrong, 'console=ttyS*' is how Wind River defines serial I guess.19:27
BitweasilThat seems reasonable.  The serial ports onboard aren't USB.19:38
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chatter29hey guys21:20
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msvb-labPretty close to giving up on the MinnowBoard's UART1 and UART2 interfaces. They're not supported in UEFI and even booting to the more or less official Wind River Pulsar8 fails to work.21:33
msvb-labIt seems there's not much support for UART, which is a shame since so many sensors and actuators require it.21:34
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Bitweasilmsvb-lab, odd.  The Linux kernel finds them easily.21:56
BitweasilAt least about 4.421:56
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